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Michael Bateman's avatar

Disclaimer: I have not had time to read many of the linked papers and links yet. I have checked out "Beggars in Spain" from my local library and look forward to reading it.

I'm interested in this topic because I seem to require a lot of sleep. Without having read all, or even most, of the links, it seems like much of this content focuses on the *cognitive* impacts of sleep/not sleeping. My need seems to be more focused on athletic performance and my immune system.

I have a high training volume of running/skiing/climbing and notice that I perform at a much lower level when I don't sleep ~8 hours. The heart rate & sleep data I collect on myself seems to confirm this subjective feeling. I also tend to get sick quickly if I maintain my training volume with consistent low sleep over the period of a few days or a week. Friends that are professional runners or otherwise semi-professional athletes that I know seem to focus on sleep as a core part of their training.

I wonder if you might synthesize any of your readings that relate to this aspect of the topic?

Ben Hoffman's avatar

This addresses the "metabolite clearance" theory of sleep mainly through the glymphatic/tau/amyloid story: sleep physically flushes protein aggregates out of the brain, so without enough sleep you get neurodegeneration. The counterarguments offered are reasonable against that version. Neurons in the heart and lungs function constantly, REM sleep involves high brain activity, insomniacs don't seem to get more dementia, short sleepers might get less, narcoleptics get Alzheimer's at normal rates.

But there's a different version that these counterarguments don't have the same evidential strength against: reactive oxygen species (ROS) clearance. ROS are produced as a byproduct of mitochondrial energy production in all cells. They accumulate during wakefulness because waking metabolism is expensive. The body's main intracellular antioxidant for neutralizing ROS is glutathione, a small molecule made from three amino acids: glutamate, cysteine, and glycine.

A Drosophila study https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.2005206 bears directly on this. Multiple short-sleeping mutant lines (with mutations in unrelated genes) were all more vulnerable to oxidative stress. Forcing normal flies to sleep more made them survive oxidative stress better. And reducing ROS specifically in neurons made the flies sleep less.

This is compatible with the temporal niche thesis. If sleep originally evolved for niche specialization, and the body then co-opted the resting period for ROS clearance, then how much sleep is needed is partly a function of how fast you can clear ROS. That rate depends in part on glutathione availability, which depends in part on substrate supply.

Let's look at the specific counterarguments one by one as applied to ROS hypothesis:

1. Neurons in the heart and lungs function constantly.

ROS clearance isn't about neurons needing rest. It's about whole-organism oxidative damage accumulating faster during wakefulness than the antioxidant system can neutralize it. Cardiac neurons have a relatively stable metabolic load; the brain's load fluctuates with wakefulness.

2. REM involves high brain activity.

Glutathione-dependent ROS neutralization is a chemical process, not a function of neural quiescence.

3. Brain clearance is reduced during sleep.

This is about glymphatic flow (physical flushing of interstitial fluid). Glutathione operates inside cells.

4. Insomniacs don't get more dementia / short sleepers get less / narcoleptics get Alzheimer's at normal rates.

These are about protein aggregation, not oxidative stress. The ROS model predicts an interaction between sleep duration and antioxidant substrate availability. A short sleeper with adequate glutathione substrates could clear ROS in less time. The Drosophila result (reducing ROS → less sleep needed) is consistent with this.

Glycine is rate-limiting for glutathione production https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9879756/ in many contexts, and many people may have suboptimal glycine intake for maximal glutathione synthesis. This would limit ROS clearance rate during sleep, meaning they need more sleep to achieve the same degree of clearance.

I wrote this up as a full essay exploring the implications: "Is fever a symptom of glycine deficiency?": https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/87XoatpFkdmCZpvQK/is-fever-a-symptom-of-glycine-deficiency The fever question is the main thread, but the sleep/ROS/glutathione mechanism is the foundation.

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